Interview with Joe Waranyuwat, Part II

This is a continuation of the correspondence I have had with Kulapan (Joe) Waranyuwat, Academic Advisor and Coordinator of Transfer Programs at UIUC, about his work with engineering transfer students. He was kind enough to answer some of my follow up questions.

Scott Spitze (SS): How much do you track students once they have transferred here? Is it the same as other students, or do you pay closer attention to them? Are you quicker to intervene if transfer students seem to be struggling? 

Joe Waranyuwat (JW): 
Post-transfer:

We track the transfer students once they have transferred here, but no more than what we do with the other students. Because transfer students do just as well (as measured by GPA) as the non-transfer students, we decided not to provide more support or resources for the transfer students than we do for the non-transfer students and to put our resources elsewhere (pre-transfer).

Pre-transfer:

I should mention that we have two groups of transfers: Pathways and non-Pathways. We do not provide resources for the non-Pathways prospective transfer students beyond what you’d typically see in a college office: advising and admissions counseling. Most of our resources are put into the Engineering Pathways program: http://pathways.engineering.illinois.edu.

SS: What does the University do to help transfer students adjust socially, or is that something you have to let happen naturally? For the students who struggle here, do problems seem to be more social or more academic?

JW: The problems seem to be more social. We have social events spread across the first semester. The first semester is usually the hardest so we try to get them connected then. After that first semester, most of them are OK. We also have an orientation course that really helps them make the transition. Topics include: study skills, expectations, time and stress management, campus resources, etc.

SS: I do not know how much you take high school performance into account, but if you do, about what percentage of students could have been accepted to the University if they had applied as freshman, and what percent probably would not have been accepted, but their college career makes them qualified? 

JW: I have not measured this so I cannot say conclusively. But my hunch tells me that most of them would not have been admitted as a freshmen. For the majority of them, their college career makes them qualified.

Here’s my personal opinion with the caveat that I do know much about this area so I’m commenting purely out of observation:

To be admitted as a freshmen, you have to be really good at taking standardized tests since most of our admitted students fall in the top 1% of the country in terms of test scores. These tests have merit but major flaws too. They measure processing speed (how fast you can crunch out those math problems, and it’s not about whether you have the capability to think abstractly which is what is often required for advanced undergraduate study), knowledge base (the better the high school you go to, the better your knowledge base), and income level (if you’re really low income, you can’t afford to take these tests). So the students that miss out on admission might be slower thinkers (and thus can’t score in the top 1%) but has an ability to do complex mathematics and reasoning, or students who have potential to learn but didn’t attend the most resourced high schools, and those who simply cannot afford the exams.

We see many transfer students who fall into these categories.

Progress Report, Week 2/15-2/21

On advice from a friend who transferred here, I contacted Joe Waranyuwat, Academic Advisor and Coordinator of Transfer Programs at UIUC (interview here). He was very helpful; giving me an outline of how the transfer process works here at UIUC and answering my questions about transfer students. I'd once again like to thank Mr. Waranyuwat for his time.

This week, I've been reading a lot on transfer students. I haven't been summarizing them formally, but I have added them to my bibliography. These papers focused on the process transfer students go through and how they fair at their new universities, and how community colleges can best help their students.  

The second topic was addressed in Juan Carlos Calcagno, et. al's "Community College Student Success: What Institutional Characteristics Make a Difference?" Which compared individual student results based on the community college they attended. They found that smaller size and lower proportion of part-time faculty both correlated with higher success rates. 

The first topic was addressed in a number of papers I read, one of which, "Academic Performance of Community College Transfer Students and 'Native' Students at a Large State University," was written by J. Conrad Glass Jr. and Anthony Harrington. It compared 100 transfer students and 100 'native" students all attending a 4-year public university students for 2 years starting junior year. Some transfer students saw gpa fall the first semester of junior year, but final grades were not statistically different from non-transfers. Transfer students were more likely to drop out and graduate late, but were in many ways similar to "native" students. The sample size, however, was quite small.

A more qualitative look at the process of transferring came from Barbara Townsend's "Community College Transfer Students: A Case Study of Survival," which interviewed community college students from one school who transferred to one 4-year university. The students mostly reported that they transferried on their own, with more help from the 4-year university than the community college. They found the academics more rigorous  at the 4-year university, and many of their biggest wishes were that the community college would emphasize more writing.

Townsend worked with Nancy McNerny and Allen Arnold to produce a quantitative measurement of transfer students in "Will this Community College Transfer Student Succeed? Factors Affecting Transfer Student Performance," which followed transfer students from one community college to one 4-year university. They focused mainly on high school and community college performance as predictors, and found that both predict higher gpas at the 4-year university. But it also found that of the students, about 50% would not have been accepted based on high school performance alone, and many were able to achieve satisfactory gpas at the 4-year university.

From the readings this week, I think I have a few questions:

1. Part-time faculty correlate with lower success rates for students of community colleges. Is it justifiable for these colleges to increase tuition so they can higher full time staff, or would this expense not justify any improved results that might be seen?

2. The success of community college students still largely depends on background and academic preparation. But many community colleges employ open enrollment and have a mission of serving everyone. Is this mission hurting the students who end up moving on to 4-year colleges and would benefit from more rigorous teaching? Should community colleges be divided into those for students who want associates or below and those who want bachelors or above?

3. Transfer students face two types of challenges when arriving at new schools: social and academic. How are these problems different from "native" students? What can universities do to help transfer students meet these challenges? 

4. As shown before, high school success is a huge indicator of college success. But some transfer students succeed at community colleges and 4-year universities despite shaky high school records. Is this the case of students under-performing in high school, but they know most of the information needed for college, they just don't signal so, or do they learn the gaps in their knowledge at community colleges that allow them to succeed at 4-year universities? Can community colleges take students who are not qualified for 4-year universities and transform them into students who are? 

Discussion with Kulapan (Joe) Waranyuwat, Academic Advisor and Coordinator of Transfer Programs at UIUC

I was privileged to be in contact with Joe Waranyuwat, Academic Advisor and Coordinator of Transfer Programs at UIUC. He mainly works with engineering studetns, and was gracious enough to answer some of my questions about engineering transfer students at University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign.

General Statement:
"Transfer process is straightforward. Students apply through the Admissions site, and we select them primarily based on their college GPA. A big chunk of the students transfer from community colleges but a decent number transfer from 4-year institutions as well. We have programming set up for students before they transfer to Illinois and after they transfer."

"The programming is different for each group since each group has different needs. For the former, it's mostly advising and teaching. For the ones who have successfully transferred over to Illinois, programming revolves mostly around orientation classes and social activities. Success rates, as measured by the Illinois GPA, between the regular students and the transfer students are more or less the same."

Q & A:

Scott Spitze (SS): Are there any differences in background between the average transfer student and the average student who started here?

Joe Waranyuwat (JW): It depends what you mean. But yes, I’d say so. We see more older students among the transfer population, perhaps more low-income students too, and some of them were less prepared for a 4-year school right out of high school.

SS: About what percentage of desired transfers do you accept?

JW: We admit approximately 300 applicants out of 1,000. There is no exact percentage or number. We just want to admit qualified students.

SS: Are there any common problems experienced by transfer students?

JW:  Transition to a new campus, courses, and social life.

SS: What are the most important steps to assure smooth transitions for transfer students?

JW: Addressing #3 (previous question).  We do this primarily through advising, teaching an orientation class, and providing opportunities for students to engage with each other and the larger campus community.

SS: Would you advise a potential student wanting to go to a school like uiuc to apply directly, or to take classes at a cheaper school before transferring?

JW: This really depends on the student’s individual circumstances and needs. I certainly recommend some to apply directly and others to start at a community college first.

I have asked some more questions about transfer students and am waiting for a response to them, so this post will be updated when I hear back. 

Potential Data Sources

1. UIUC- 6 year raduation rates of incoming freshman who entered from 1994-2006, includes college, race/Hispanic, gender, and whether the person changed colleges while at Illinois
http://www.dmi.illinois.edu/stuenr/index.htm#gradrates

2. University of Wisconsin- Madison- 6 year graduation rates for freshman who entered from 1996-2005, including at UW-Madison, at any UW school, and any institution, female rates, and "targeted minority" rates
 https://apir.wisc.edu/retentionandgraduation/NSC_Enhanced_Graduation_2012.pdf

3. UIC- 6 year graduation rates for incoming fall freshman from 2004-2008, by race/Hispanic and gender, includes underlying numbers
http://www.oir.uic.edu/students/pdfs/IPEDS_GradRate_RE_GEN_FR_FERPA.pdf

4. North Carolina University system- 6 year graduation rates for incoming freshman from 2001-2005 for 17 schools in North Carolina system, includes whether graduated from starting institution or any institution within the system.
https://www.northcarolina.edu/sites/default/files/retention_graduation_report_2012.pdf

5. Oregon State University- 6 year graduation rates for incoming freshman from 2000-2007, includes gender, race/Hispanic, in-state vs out-of-state, no underlying numbers
http://oregonstate.edu/admin/aa/ir/sites/default/files/retention-graduation-gender-ethnicity-residency.pdf

4. College Measures- Potential website to use

Positives- Data on lots of schools, especially useful for smaller universities and community colleges, which are hard to find good data for; break down by race/Hispanic; backed by American Institutes for Research, which seems reliable; some past data; two year institutions include transfer rates

Negatives- Does not say how they got data; does not give underlying numbers, just percentages; unsure over what time period they measure graduations; race/Hispanic data only goes back one year, overall data only goes back five; no info on what happened to transfer students

Overall, I'd be very hesitant to use this data, but other than this source, I haven't found good data other than for large, public, four year universities, and the data I have found for other schools has been just as simplistic. Should I be more worried about false inferences from only looking at big schools, or with errors due to sub-optimal data over a larger sample. My gut says the later, and that if I can only make inferences that apply to large schools, so be it, but I would love your opinion.
http://collegemeasures.org/

5. National Education Longitudinal Study, 1988-2000 This is the data used by Adelman in "Revisiting the Toolbox." I have requested the cd from the library and will update with how good the data is when received. 

6. A Stronger Nation through Higher Education- A report by the Lumina Foundation, gives percent of residents of American states, counties, and cites who have at least an associates degree; level of education for citizens of each state, degree attainment broken down by race; all in percentages, not hard numbers 
http://strongernation.luminafoundation.org/report/downloads/pdfs/a-stronger-nation-2014.pdf

7. National Information Center for Higher Education Policymaking and Analysis- Website with numerous data on college, including graduation rates, affordability, efficiency, state support. and workforce and economic conditions for each US state; combination of numbers and percentages
http://www.higheredinfo.org/ 

8. National Student Clearing House- Website that tracks a large number of university graduation rates, broken down by state, type of institution, full time/part time status, and age. Does not, however, have background, and some reports lack the base data sets.
http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/